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  • #61
    Where to from here for Crypto and blockchain technology. Seems to be heading sideways in no mans land at the moment.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Bailey View Post
      Where to from here for Crypto and blockchain technology. Seems to be heading sideways in no mans land at the moment.
      Not sure whether it was ever sensible to connect the future of these 2 things (block chain and crypto currencies). Sure, they happened to use the block chain to register crypto currencies, but this does not mean that the futures of these quite different things are in any way connected. Same thing as assuming that the future of share registries is connected to any particular security.

      The blockchain may or may not develop as a successful decentralised databank technology, though I am sort of wondering whether its incredible inefficiency in terms of storage space and required processing power per GByte stored will be its Achilles heel.

      Crypto currencies will in my view stay and the global use of them is in my view likely to grow. However - I am not talking about the current set of crypto currencies (unbacked and without underlying value - Bitcoin & co), but I expect over time Reserve banks and big organisations (Amazon, google, ...) to issue their own cryptocurrencies which they will back. Speculating with these will be possible, but not be more (or less) successful than speculating today's fiat currencies. However - people will use these new crypto currencies for something useful like for paying their bills and to store value (save money). Latter only works if the currency in use is not jumping around like a crazy horse ...

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      • #63
        “Wood said she had wondered why digital assets such as storage, computing power and bandwidth had not been traded when they were as valuable to people as copper or oil. “The reason is we’ve not been able to do this. Now with blockchain technology, we’re going to be able to.”

        A United States investment manager says cryptocurrencies are set to become the first new asset class since the 1600s.

        Tuesday, September 11th 2018, 6:00AM

        by Susan Edmunds

        Ark has partnered with Niko to launch a Global Disruptive Innovation Fund.

        “Bonds are based on fixed assets, equities are claims on excess cashflow derived from those assets. Crypto assets will be structured based on the capacity utilisation of those assets,” she said.

        Wood said she had wondered why digital assets such as storage, computing power and bandwidth had not been traded when they were as valuable to people as copper or oil. “The reason is we’ve not been able to do this. Now with blockchain technology, we’re going to be able to.”

        That would lead to new products being built up around digital assets, she said. “In the say way we have REITs around real estate we’ll have products built around digital assets. Before this digital ecosystem evolved there was no way to do this.”

        She said Bitcoin had the best shot at becoming the global digital currency, or the reserve currency.

        The dramatic fall in the value of cryptocurrencies had been less tough on Bitcoin than it had on others, she said. That flight to safety had increased Bitcoin’s share of the crypto asset eco system from low 30% to high 50%.

        Bitcoin fell from US$20,000 to less than US$6500. Ethereum dropped from US$1368 to US$196.

        “That’s a clue to us that Bitcoin will be the reserve asset of the crypto asset eco system.”

        She said investors should have some exposure.

        An Ark analyst had discovered that Bitcoin’s transaction volume was now bigger than PayPal, with an average transaction size of $30,000.

        It was being used in places where it was difficult to do cross-border business-to-business transactions, she said, and where people wanted to sent remittances back to their families. “There’s a huge unmet need in international markets.”

        https://www.godreturns.co.nz/article...set-class.html

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        • #64
          Originally posted by 120BPM View Post
          “Wood said she had wondered why digital assets such as storage, computing power and bandwidth had not been traded when they were as valuable to people as copper or oil. “The reason is we’ve not been able to do this. Now with blockchain technology, we’re going to be able to.”
          I would have thought its because copper and oil last a very long time. What is it - a century before they started to find an alternative to oil as a source of energy to power a motor vehicle. Whereas storage and computing power land bandwidth ask about a week before some new fan dangled bigger better faster thing comes along

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          • #65
            I remember reading articles (possibly on FP) about people with families selling literally everything they owned and putting it all into Bitcoin. When the market was going up like crazy, there was plenty of articles about these people and they were made out to be investment gurus.
            I'd be interested to see an update on these people now.​

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/wor...id=app-android

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Bailey View Post
              I remember reading articles (possibly on FP) about people with families selling literally everything they owned and putting it all into Bitcoin. When the market was going up like crazy, there was plenty of articles about these people and they were made out to be investment gurus.
              I'd be interested to see an update on these people now.​

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/wor...id=app-android
              Didi Taihuttu was one of the more "famous" Read a bit about him here: https://www.businessinsider.nl/didi-...-fans-2017-12/)

              He was going to hodl until 2020 when he anticipated Bitcoin would be worth around $1m and he would be able to live off the proceeds.

              He joined the Advisory Board of MoneyToken which has lost 50% of value in last month.

              One known location was Thailand and working as a Cryptocurrency day trader. I'm assuming he didnt sell his children.

              Also been spruiking Verge lately - high of $0.22 at the beginning of the year but now around $0.011. In a campervan around europe.


              Winner!
              Last edited by MajorMoke; 14-09-18, 09:26 AM.

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              • #67
                This company is paying up to 6.9% interest on deposited coins. How do they do it? They loan deposited coin to shorters etc for a fee and earn that way. Developments like this were always going to happen.


                Celsius, a cryptocurrency lending startup, says it's paying thousands of users interest for depositing bitcoin and ether with its wallet app.

                Revealed exclusively to CoinDesk, Celsius claims to have garnered more than 10,000 users since the soft launch of its mobile app on June 29, with an average deposit of 0.5 bitcoin or 5.5 ether earning up to 6.7 percent on an annualized basis. The interest comes from income Celsius makes lending fiat and crypto, much of the latter to hedge funds that want to short, or bet against, the coins.

                "When we make interest income we pay a chunk of that back to the people who gave us BTC," said Celsius CEO Alex Mashinsky, who's best known as a pioneer of Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP), the technology that allows phone calls via cyberspace.

                Celsius raised $50 million in an initial coin offering last year, selling a token called CEL. Since then, it has gathered crypto deposits worth several million dollars, with hundreds of new users joining the platform each week in September, the company said.


                Stepping back, interest-earning opportunities for crypto users are rare and may be particularly welcome in the current bear market as coin prices languish. As reported by CoinDesk, a rival company, Compound, launched last month, allowing people to invest crypto in a pool of short-term loans similar to a money market fund.

                Yet crypto and lending often don't mix well. For instance, BTCJam and BitLendingClub, two peer-to-peer lending platforms, both wound down in 2016, citing regulatory issues. The individuals lending on these platforms had little recourse when the borrower defaulted, apart from online arbitration and, failing that, court.

                Moreover, the ups and downs of crypto prices can only amplify the risk inherent in lending money.

                "To be able to consistently provide that return in assets that are so volatile is always going to be hard," said blockchain consultant Angus Champion de Crespigny.

                Celsius, though, requires collateral for all its loans and it operates more like a bank than a P2P platform. The startup also boasts gravitas: In addition to telecom veteran Mashinsky, it counts academic cryptographer Scott Stornetta, who was cited multiple times in the original bitcoin white paper, as an advisor.

                And beyond its current model, Celsius has a grand vision of putting its activities on its own blockchain. Bank-like model

                Unlike new rival Compound, which strictly lends crypto, most Celsius loans are issued in fiat, although the company requires crypto to be pledged as collateral for these.

                Mashinsky told CoinDesk that Celsius' custodial crypto wallet, offered through a partnership with the qualified custodian BitGo, resembles a bank account in that users earn interest on their deposits every Monday.

                Even as they do so, Celsius wallet users can withdraw their deposits at any time to a non-custodial wallet, or one where they control the private keys. In this way, the wallet resembles an interest-bearing checking account (though to be clear, there's no federal deposit insurance here).

                Also like a bank, Celsius loans out part of the money deposited by crypto wallet users. The borrowers, typically hedge funds looking to sell the coin short, pledge dollars or other cryptos as collateral in these transactions, and pay interest in bitcoin.

                In addition to these crypto wallet deposits, "we have U.S. lenders who say 'show us you have capital and then we will lend you dollars cheaply,'" Mashinksy said.

                On the asset side of its balance sheet, Celsius has generated a dozen fiat loans totaling roughly $11 million, with repayment periods ranging from 30 days to three years. The startup is finalizing a $10 million loan in XRP.

                The company also recently secured a deal to manage the United Nations Fifth Element crypto deposits from donors worldwide, assets the UN plans to deploy for various sustainability initiatives.

                Yet Celsius could eventually face more formidable rivals, like actual banks. According to de Crespigny, there's no reason traditional financial institutions couldn't offer a competing deposit service for crypto assets. "They [banks] are just evaluating the risk and rewards, the regulatory risks and the volatility of this product," he said.

                Conversely, Celsius COO Daniel Leon argued that the startup could attract new users away from such institutions by consistently offering better returns to depositors and cheaper loans to borrowers without credit checks. He told CoinDesk:
                "We believe if we pay them [users] a little more, if we charge them a bit less, then we're going to win."
                One other thing Celsius has in common with banks: requiring know-your-customer identity checks. Long-term vision

                All things considered, Celsius hopes its biggest differentiator will be the auditable CEL blockchain, which it expects to launch by 2019.

                "We're building our own blockchain that is going to provide total transparency on all our banking activities like no other service out there," Leon said. "That's our commitment to do this on a distributed ledger rather than a private server."

                Even before the CEL blockchain launches, Celsius accepts this ethereum-based token as repayment regardless of whether the loan was in a different currency, in order to establish the utility value of the token.

                "It's up to the user whether they repay in dollars or in CEL," Mashinsky said.

                Once launched, the public CEL blockchain should allow users to audit every function performed across the platform, without revealing the identities of borrowers or depositors, the company says. Mashinsky said Celsius will use this blockchain to hold itself accountable for distributing all profits after operating costs to users.

                That vision is what persuaded Satoshi-cited cryptographer Stornetta to join Celsius as an advisor. He's generally avoided involvement with crypto startups until now.

                "I made an exception, the first exception, for Celsius because I think their success is going to be a win for the entire blockchain community," Stornetta told CoinDesk.

                Speaking to how Celsius offers services comparable to traditional banking, he concluded:
                "You have to take your idealism and couple it with the nuts and bolts of building a compelling, end-user value proposition."

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                • #68
                  Hmm - so if I got this right, than the business case is to get fixed interest on another bunch of made up crypto coins (without any liquidity worthwhile talking about) which are rented out to shorters. If the shorters are right, you might get your interest, but your principle (the coin value) is dropping. Bad business. If the shorters are wrong, they will be burned ... and given that even shorters can learn - there soon will be no business anymore. Bad business.

                  Ah yes - and of course - just give all your money to a startup without history and hope for it to come back ....

                  Sounds like a lot of risk for little upside. So many better ways to get a similar interest rate with less risk of loosing the principle ...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I wonder who the bank is. Maybe Heartland Group are really moving forward with their digital and diversity aspirations.

                    New Zealand will get its crypto-based dollars back early next year, in a move that will likely cause excitement among local cryptocurrency investors and enthusiasts, and incomprehension among the rest of the population.

                    Known as the NZDT, the New Zealand dollar token is the country's first cryptocurrency token "tethered to the NZ dollar”.

                    A year later, Lyness says the company has a new, smaller bank behind the crypto NZ dollar token system and should be ready to relaunch the NZDT in the first quarter next year.

                    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU181...early-2019.htm

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Bailey View Post
                      I wonder who the bank is. Maybe Heartland Group are really moving forward with their digital and diversity aspirations.

                      New Zealand will get its crypto-based dollars back early next year, in a move that will likely cause excitement among local cryptocurrency investors and enthusiasts, and incomprehension among the rest of the population.

                      Known as the NZDT, the New Zealand dollar token is the country's first cryptocurrency token "tethered to the NZ dollar”.

                      A year later, Lyness says the company has a new, smaller bank behind the crypto NZ dollar token system and should be ready to relaunch the NZDT in the first quarter next year.

                      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU181...early-2019.htm
                      LOL - a "NZD tethered currency" (something like a Dick Smith or Whitcoulls voucher - just without the voucher bit) backed by Christchurch based Cryptopia!

                      The NZ dollar digital token, issued by Christchurch-based cryptocurrency exchange Cryptopia, allowed Kiwis to deposit real money into a Cryptopia bank account, and receive the equivalent number NZ dollar-backed cryptocurrency tokens. An investment of $100 NZ Dollars would receive 100 tokens.
                      A Re-Start up with a quite patchy history and significant previous problems (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/101...form-cryptopia) but without banking oversight and - of course - without credit rating. What possibly could go wrong?

                      I could imagine better places to sink money I never want to see again ... but hey - each to their own.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BlackPeter View Post

                        LOL - a "NZD tethered currency" (something like a Dick Smith or Whitcoulls voucher - just without the voucher bit) backed by Christchurch based Cryptopia!



                        A Re-Start up with a quite patchy history and significant previous problems (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/101...form-cryptopia) but without banking oversight and - of course - without credit rating. What possibly could go wrong?

                        I could imagine better places to sink money I never want to see again ... but hey - each to their own.
                        I think the trick would be to hold the tether for as short a time as possible and purely use it to buy whatever currency you were after.

                        To be fair to Cryptopia, it was the bank who pulled it out from under their feet. Laugh we may, but my business does not turn over a million NZD a day!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Bailey View Post

                          I think the trick would be to hold the tether for as short a time as possible and purely use it to buy whatever currency you were after.

                          To be fair to Cryptopia, it was the bank who pulled it out from under their feet. Laugh we may, but my business does not turn over a million NZD a day!
                          Cryptopia is still getting bad feedback. Like "Cryptopia Exchange IT IS A CHEATER SITE . IT SELLS COIN WITHOUT CONSENT OF ACCOUNT HOLDER AND TRANSFER BTC FROM ACCOUNT OF ACCOUNT HOLDER .
                          IT CHEATS CLIENT ------- IT DONE MANY SUCH CASES . WITHDRAW YOUR ENTIRE COINS ------ IT DID SO TOGETHER ME ALSO AND ALSO MANY OTHERS DAILY COMES IN KNOWLEDGE .........."

                          And while I'm here probably worthwhile looking at a snapshot of the markets which have been in freefall recently. Market cap down to $143b - about the same level as August 2017. And bitcoin (which is holding the market up) down to $4394. A level not seen since Aug 2017 as well.

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                          • #73
                            It looks like the real money to be made in Bitcoin is by shorting it.

                            Does anyone know how to do this?

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Bailey View Post
                              It looks like the real money to be made in Bitcoin is by shorting it.

                              Does anyone know how to do this?
                              I do. Set an account up with a CFD provider, such as IG.com. (I use them for the last 4 months and to date have been happy enough). The costs are reasonably biggish on crypts and the spreads are largish 3690 3730 is the current spread. But you can short or buy with impunity and its on tick as it were so there is leverage available. Ripple spread is .3308 .3388 etc.
                              On shares the cost is $7AUD min so is pretty competitive. You can also short shares.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Blackcap View Post

                                I do. Set an account up with a CFD provider, such as IG.com. (I use them for the last 4 months and to date have been happy enough). The costs are reasonably biggish on crypts and the spreads are largish 3690 3730 is the current spread. But you can short or buy with impunity and its on tick as it were so there is leverage available. Ripple spread is .3308 .3388 etc.
                                On shares the cost is $7AUD min so is pretty competitive. You can also short shares.
                                Thank you Blackcap, that's very interesting.

                                Comment

                                HLG

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